TAstronomer Nathalie Cabrol was born in 1963 and grew up near Paris. He completed his PhD at the Sorbonne on the evolution of water on Mars and moved to the US in 1994 as a Nasa Ames researcher. He has worked extensively in the Atacama desert and the Chilean Andes, examining how life adapts to similar extremes in other worlds. Cabrol, who lives in Northern California, is now the director of the Carl Sagan Seti Institute [Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence] Center. His latest book, The Secret Life of the Universe: An Astrologer Searches for the Origins and Limits of Lifepublished on 15 August.
How did you become interested in the heavens?
It is not difficult to be interested in the heavens, we are in the heavens! I remember looking at the sky, when I was five or six years old, and I started to wonder: “What does this mean? Why does this exist?”
If you want life outside the world, is it wrong to just want Planets like earth and life as we understand it?
There is nothing wrong with looking at our biochemistry and the type of environment that brought us here. Astronomy tells us that the things we made are very common, and we learn that carbon was created much earlier than we thought. And with the discovery of exoplanets [planets outside our solar system], we also note that, although there may not be an accurate picture of Earth anywhere in the universe, there are places that are probably suitable for life, or even more so. But from that point of view, we are still risking our own version of ourselves. I’m really looking at signs of all life – signs that could be true anywhere in the universe, regardless of biochemistry.
What makes you sure there is something there, rather than nothing?
The simple answer is Carl Sagan’s answer: “That would be a terrible waste of space.” We’ve been searching for life intelligently for thousands of years, but we’ve only been searching in a meaningful way with technology for 60 years, so this is a very small search. Also, you need to look at the distance. Even by some miracle [alien life forms] they think and communicate with us in similar ways and are interested in what is happening around them, our radio bubble is about 200 light years across. That’s small. Then there is the fact that we want life but we don’t really know what life is, or wisdom, or limited knowledge. We do not know what those three things are. We’re still looking for them, that’s good, because otherwise you’re not going anywhere.
Where in our planetary system would you expect to find life developing?
I believe that Mars still holds many surprises for us. They won’t be high, but unlike most people I don’t think it will be very low. There is still volcanic activity on Mars and we know that there is plenty of water and nutrients – magnesium, potassium and so on. Elsewhere in the solar system, Europa [a moon of Jupiter] it may have an oxygen-rich ocean that could provide the opportunity for more complex life to evolve. It also has carbon resources.
We are talking about the oceans under the ice for many kilometers.
Yes. And the thing is, you don’t have to invest in submarines to explore it; you can let mother nature bring things to you. Because of Europa’s gravitational waves, you have these convective movements and a kind of slush coming up constantly. You sit next to it, touch those things and look at what’s inside. You let the ocean come to you.
But Enceladus [a moon of Saturn] it’s my favorite fact. I like it because it throws things at you in geysers or plumes [shooting up from the surface]. Obviously, it’s hard to slow down the spacecraft to take samples, but we can do amazing things on Enceladus.
Do other planets give us lessons about what to expect global warming on Earth?
If you look at what happens to a planet when you have a runaway greenhouse effect going on, then this is Venus. And the hottest planet that loses water is Mars. We have that right before our eyes.
What are your thoughts on people? like Elon Musk talking about colonizing other planets?
First, I hate the word colonising. And the idea of putting extraterrestrial forces on another planet because we’re escaping our own is an affront to the spirit of inquiry. Migrants often move because they long for better conditions. Not so with Mars. It’s even worse. I think we should go to Mars not because it is easy to escape, but because we have grown up and use it as a training ground for the development of adults to take the first steps to become planets , and later, interstellar. But we also need to use all that technology to look back at Earth.
Getting out into space challenges our minds to find solutions that we wouldn’t look for in our world. Of course, sending a Tesla into space [as Musk did in 2018] it was not the right message when trying to create space policy and prevent planetary pollution.
There has been a lot of excitement about UAPs [unidentified anomalous phenomena] in the near future. Are you paying close attention?
As a scientist, UAPs are interesting to me, because first we have to take them for what they are: unknown phenomena. The leap I’m making is to say it’s extraterrestrial things, like flying meetings and so on. We know that 96% of them will find a natural explanation. Another thing to think about is that we see a lot of unusual space phenomena, because our planet is changing. Then there are the unmentioned government jobs that you were not supposed to see. Finally, there is half a percent or so that is unexplained. I am definitely interested.
But Seti doesn’t get involved in aviation matters – our devices are pointed too far away. I always say, jokingly, that we are looking for ET in its habitat, while people who are looking for UAPs are trying to see ET in us. But if you can tell me tomorrow that you have irrefutable evidence of another spaceship caught on video somewhere, I will be the happiest person in the world.
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